Sim Breeding Nicks… The Scratch Bred
The Hot Topic on the Message Board these days has been about real-life sires and who’s better, Aussie sires, Euro sires, Japan sires, or American sires. The dialogue has been spirited with good points presented on all sides, but quite frankly, when it comes to breeding in this game, does that even matter?
What I want to know is what breeding nicks work best in this game. What sire can I afford, what Dam Sire should I use for the breeding, and what are my best chances for a good result, preferably graded? Smart breeder’s will refer to the Yoss Website for successful breeding nicks; if you don’t, you should, I know I do, but what you won’t learn from that terrific site is if the success of that breeding nick you are interested in creating is a result of a Mare Bred horse or a Scratch Bred horse. Is it that important, let’s find out.
I believe the success of a newly bred horse is heavily influenced by the on-track performance of the Mare that is used for breeding. Sending a mediocre sire to a Graded winning game mare gives you a better than average chance of a stakes winning result; just check some of the Local Breeds that have been sent to some of the top Breeding Mares. Sending a top Sire to a Graded winner, well, we all have avoided those Maiden Races. They are likely to get the best results in this game.
Sure, your dilemma is that you are a relatively new player and you don’t own any top mares to use for breeding. Hey, I have been playing for 16 years and I only have a handful of mares that are absolute musts every year. Most times I breed from Scratch. Using my less than spectacular breeding mares has just produced ordinary results, and to be honest, Allowance/Claimers runners no longer interest me. My research indicates that most of the breeding done in this game is to Game Mares, almost 65%. This number will increase as newer players develop breeding mares and if there is a decline in new players entering the game.
Let’s concentrate on Scratch bred breeding. I am considering a Scratch Bred breeding of Galileo x Seeking the Gold. Now if you are like me, you are expecting Graded results from a breeding of that caliber. My research tells me that this combination, from 999 top results, has been duplicated 34 times.
This is the breakdown:
23- Bred to Game Mares
4 – Graded winners
7 – Stakes winners
3 – Graded Placed
11 – Scratch Bred
0 – Graded winners
4 – Stakes winners
1 – Graded Placed
These comparative results, although not awful, persuade me, by my standards, to seek other options when selecting a Dam Sire for Galileo. Perhaps Dansili as a DS, who has been Scratch Bred to Galileo 3 times with 1 Graded winner, 1 Stakes winner and 1 Graded placed runner or Pientre Celebre, who has never been bred to a Game Mare, but has 4 Scratch Bred runners with 1 Graded winner, 1 Stakes winner, 1 Graded placed and 1 Stakes placed runner. A DS that is also quite affordable.
The point is that results aren’t always what they appear. This breeding nicks best runners are clearly influenced by the Game Mare. Sure, I can breed Galileo to Kingmambo and get equally good results, but other impressionable nicks, when Scratch Bred, can fail miserably.
The next thing you will say is sure, that’s all well and good, but I can’t afford that kind of money to breed a Galileo x Kingmambo, and if I could, wait forever to win it in a Bid, and it could take years before I accumulate the kind of BP’s in one stable for a breeding like that.
Today and over the next several weeks I will present some of the better Scratch Bred Breeding Nicks in the game, both expensive and affordable. Feel free to contact me if you are considering a Scratch Bred and would like the favorable nicks to the sire you intend to use. Below are 10 Sires, top tier and middle tier, with recommended Dam Sires listed below the Sires name.
DEEP IMPACT – 316 Scratch Bred runners from 999 results…
Nureyev – 25 Scratch Bred runners, 5 Graded winners, 4 Stakes winners, and 4 Graded Placed
Theatrical (Nyreyev) – 4 Scratch Bred runners, 1 Graded and 1 Graded Placed
Shamardal – 1 Scratch Bred runner with 1 Graded winner
Smart Strike – 1 Scratch Bred runner with 1 Graded winner
Vindication – 1 Scratch Bred runner with 1 Graded winner
TALE OF THE CAT – 348 Scratch Bred runners from 999 results
Louis Quatorze – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner 1 Stakes Placed
Marscay – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner 1 Stakes Placed
Pine Bluff(Danzig) – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
Polish Precedent(Danzig) – 1 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
Rainbow Quest – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
MEDAGLIA D’ORO – 328 Scratch Bred runners from 999 results
Vindication – 5 Scratch Bred runners 2 Graded winners 2 Stakes winners 1 Stakes Placed
Dubai Millennium – 5 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner 1 Stakes winner 1 Graded Placed
Machiavellian – 5 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner 2 Stakes winners
Mr. Prospector – 21 Scratch Bred runners 3 Graded winners 3 Stakes winners 4 Graded Placed
Rainbow Quest – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
Saint Ballado – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner 1 Stakes Placed
HARD SPUN – 259 Scratch Bred runners from 999 results
Caerleon – 1 Scratch Bred runner 1 Graded winner
Mr. Greeley – 7 Scratch Bred runners 2 Graded winners
BERNARDINI – 354 Scratch Bred runners from 999 results
Danehill – 7 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner 2 Stakes winners 3 Graded Placed
Giant’s Causeway – 5 Scratch Bred runners 2 Graded winners 1 Stakes winner
Mr. Prospector – 25 Scratch Bred runners 6 Graded winners 3 Stakes winners 4 Graded Placed
Nureyev – 5 Scratch Bred runners 2 Graded winners 1 Stakes winner 2 Stakes Placed
Southern Halo – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
Storm Cat – 38 Scratch Bred runners 11 Graded winners 5 Stakes winners 2 Graded Placed
QUALITY ROAD – 197 Scratch Bred runners from 760 results
Capote – 6 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner*
Halo – 5 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner*
*These are the only 2 Graded Scratch Bred runners produced by Quality Road
SUPER SAVER – 208 Scratch Bred runners from 782 results
Carson City – 4 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
Deputy Minister – 6 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
Unbridled – 13 Scratch Bred runners 2 Graded winners 1 Stakes winner
DANSILI – 289 Scratch Bred runners from 999 results
Broad Brush – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner 1 Stakes winner
Distant View – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner 1 Stakes Placed
Elusive Quality – 1 Scratch Bred runner 1 Graded winner
Kingmambo – 21 Scratch Bred runners 4 Graded winners 4 Graded Placed 3 Stakes winners
Rainbow Quest – 6 Scratch Bred runners 2 Graded winners
Red Bullet – 1 Scratch Bred runner 1 Graded winner
Red Ransom – 2 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
Seeking the Gold – 7 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner 1 graded Placed 3 Stakes winners
Storm Cat – 24 Scratch Bred runners 6 Graded winners 4 Graded Placed 4 Stakes winners
Tale of the Cat – 1 Scratch Bred runner 1 Graded winner
FORESTRY – 360 Scratch Bred runners from 999 results
Be My Guest – 1 Scratch Bred runner 1 Graded winner
Capote – 6 Scratch Bred runners 2 Graded winners 1 Graded Placed
Mr. Prospector – 9 Scratch Bred runners 3 Graded winners 1 Stakes winner
Rainbow Quest – 1 Scratch Bred runner 1 Graded winner
FRANKEL – 399 Scratch Bred runners from 978 results
Gone West – 6 Scratch Bred runners 2 Graded winners
Kingmambo – 50 Scratch Bred runners 6 Graded winners 8 Stakes winners 2 Graded Placed
Storm Cat – 16 Scratch Bred runners 3 Graded winners 2 Stakes winners
Nureyev – 11 Scratch Bred runners 2 Graded Stakes winners
Theatrical(Nureyev) – 4 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
Rainbow Quest – 6 Scratch Bred runners 1 Graded winner
Mr. Prospector – 25 Scratch Bred runners 3 Graded winners 5 Stakes winners 1 Graded Placed
Next week I will highlight 10 more Sires and I will also post results for any sire requested.
Excellent article, it always amazes me how well constructed this game is when comes to mirroring racing reality. Mike’s algorithm’s are pretty much spot on, except perhaps a bit too much speed bias. Anyhow breeding is extremely problematic and articles like this are really great guidelines, thanks Trotter ! 🙂
Great stuff !
I agree on homebred mare thing. Definitely helps having a plus mare to breed to.
It is my general feeling that scratch breeding simply is not worth the risk. Certainly not when using big name sires. You can lose a lot of money/BPs that way and get a whole bunch of mediocre results. If you are going to scratch breed a big name sire I would suggest just go ahead and spend a bit more and make certain it is a filly so you at least get a potential broodmare out of it.
A question that does intrigue me though is how does a mare/he-mare poor runner with great pedigree fare versus a scratch bred? Let’s say I have poor running Galileo x Danehill. Would the offspring of that horse run better, worse or the about the same chances wise versus a scratch bred X sire to Galileo x Danehill? Of course it is going to vary but wonder how much the mare is in the mix versus the pedigree. I mean I have many broodmares who were G1 winners that can’t produce and mares that couldn’t run much at all but are very good broodmares. Since the scratch bred gets none of the broodmare alchemy I wonder if they always end up worse off in terms of odds?
Spending the few extra credits / bp’s to breed a female is an excellent suggestion.. I haven’t compiled the results, but almost always, game mare breedings exceed scratch bred breedings of the same Sire x Dam Sire.
I don’t scratch breed a lot but they few top notch I have bred have been useable at best ,mediocre sires seem to do better as scratch bred when I do when I chose to breed that way ,mares and very well bred hemares or the way to go ,my 2 cents worth
Nice Trot thanks for the tips and info mate.
Deyo
My personal experience when it comes to scratch breeding vs mare breeding is that breeding to a mare produces much better results if it is a 2yo horse. I have had success scratch breeding 3yo horses that have been stakes winners or better. The split is about 50/50 in my barns but most of the better scratchbreds have been bred as 3 year olds. I have had tons of well bred scratch 2yo horses that were just garbage and very disappointing.
Spending the extra to breed broodmares has its merit and I wish I would have done that when I started playing a couple years ago. I’d at least have some well bred mares retiring now, but as it stands I still don’t have much of a breeding stock.
Very good reading trot
I have made everyone of my good scratch foals fillys this season for exactly that reason that u have mentioned
Great stuff Trott-look forward to future articles. I cannot afford the top name sires, so maybe look at some bargain/low cost sire nicks? Breeding with “cards” a good idea or not? The one time I finally got enough for a B X B breeding, it was sires I hadn’t heard of till then and the horse was a bust. I still have not pulled an A card, so it will take forever to get one from turning in cards.
I have a Bernadini mediocre “she-male” I want to use-curious what sire you might use on the lower-end cost wise?
You must remember that in most cases the offspring of a game Bred Mare / Hemare is often influenced by how that Mare / Hemare performed on the racetrack. You could send the very best Sire in the game to a well-bred Mare / Hemare that couldn’t run a lick and come up with a real dud.
Bernardini has almost exclusively been used in the Dam Sire slot as a game Mare / Hemare. This makes perfect sense of course, because why would you take a top sire like Bernardini and use him as a scratch bred Dam Sire. Breed him as a sire, wait a year or 2, then retire and breed him.
If you are looking for a reasonably priced Sire to breed to your Bernardini “she-male” I might suggest Broken Vow. He has been bred to Bernardini game mares 6 times with 1 Graded winner and 2 Graded Placed runners.
good luck
Well I had not considered Broken Vow when I was looking for a sire to use with Bernadini. Better results than I remember from the last time I looked at him. So I decided to use him. So Promise Broken will start next week-thanks so much for the input here.
Dan
Been using Yoss for years and you hit on the one question ive always had…The answer seems clear now..looking forward to the rest of this..THANKS PETE